From: CEvonK@aol.com
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 20:23:15 -0400 (EDT)
To: baidarka@lists.intelenet.net, sherrit@lcs.net
Subject: Re: Skin kayaks- newbee
In a message dated 97-10-04 00:17:30 EDT, sherrit@lcs.net writes:
> Hello All Skin boaters,
>
> I am invetigating the design and building of skin boats.
> 1) I have very little knowledge of traditional skin boats (greenland,
> baidarka, ???), so I would be interested in any book suggestions, plan and
> model sources, etc .
I recommend Wolfgang Brinck's book, The Aleutian Kayak, which has extremely
detailed plans and instructions for building a baidarka. The book is
published by Ragged Mountain Press, and I have seen it available in Barnes
and Noble, so they could order it for you if they don't have it on hand. It
is a very useful item to have, mandatory, in fact, even if you are going to
use other materials than wood and canvas. The construction process is laid
out well and shown in a manner that would lend itself to other materials as
well. I hear the Greenland boat has far fewer pieces to build but is harder
to get shaped right (I don't know this from practical experience.)
> 2) Skin boats appear to me to be the simplest and least expensive boat for
> a do-it-yourselfer to put in the water. I have some basic woodworking
> powertools and skills. Sewing would likely be subbed out to a local shop
> specializing in sewing new canvas boat tops for pontoon boats. I can
learn
> what I need to know about gluing, sealing, painting, etc. (I hope!).
If you have a circular saw, jigsaw, drill, chisels, knife, plane, beltsander,
and some clamps, you have the tools required. Much of the work is hand
fitting things that you have shaped with the power tools. As for sewing, you
could sub it out, but you could probably do it yourself just as well (not
quite there yet, but others don't complain over the difficulty of sewing the
skin.)
> 3) My desire is to build a pair of kayaks/ decked canoes for use by my
> family (2 small children and a wife) on the lakes, and rivers in the
Smokey
> Mountain region. I would like to be able to rig each boat individually
for
> sail and be able to attach the two together catameran(sp?) style. Because
> these boats will be used by small children (ages 6-8) (supervised of
> course), the boats need to be stable, seaworthy, light and maneuverable--
I
> remember the frustration as a kid of learning to paddle in huge (relative
> to the size of a child) beamy and unresponsive canoes.
The wonderful thing about the baidarka that Wolfgang Brinck describes in his
book is that it can be modified very easily to fit different sized people. I
am building several right now, and each is different (ON PURPOSE.) As far as
rigging them as cats and sailing them, that is a little beyond my experience
and the scope of Wolfgang Brinck's book, but if you are clever enough to
build a baidarka you can rig something for sailing them as cats. If you
really wanted to, you could build the kids small boats that could be used as
outriggers for a large triple baidarka that you and your wife could paddle
tandem when not using it as a tri-maran. But that's something you would have
to cipher out yourself.
> 4) The boat and accessories would need to be car topped or pulled on a
> trailer behind a bike so lightweight is important.
You should be able to build a full sized boat that weighs under 50 pounds
even if you use the heaviest wood available (Yellow Pine is pretty heavy and
pretty common in your/my area.) Cartopping is not a problem, and neither
would be trailering it behind a bike (assuming you know how to do that.)
> 5) Foldability would be great for minimizing the storage space
> requirements. And allow me to build it in my basement, and get the
> finished product outside (several 90 degree turns away). My first boat
> will not likely be a folder, unless I can find a great set of plans, so
> I'll be building it in my backyard-- weather permitting.
The Holy Grail. I don't know of any commercially available plans for folding
baidarkas/greenland boats. Here is a website you might like to see that has
pictures of folding greenland kayaks and aluminum framed baidarkas.
123.245.86.198/Kayak/Index.html
> 6) I have concerns about the skin hulls withstanding the bumps and bruises
> from river and creek paddling. I hope to use at least one of the boats
for
> solo paddling. What are the pros and cons for various skin/ sealant
> combinations?
Don't worry about the skin. Lots of people remark about how durable the
synthetic skins are, and the canvas skin is very durable, too. When I was a
young teenager I was the recipient of a 14' canvas covered "kayak" (it was
more of a small square ended skiff.) I paddled/sailed it for several years
without hurting the skin any, and I wasn't really careful, and it wasn't a
very new skin. I ended up trying to fiberglass the thing and ruined it.
> 7) I've wondered if tractor-trailer tire inner tubes could be cut into
> strips, sewn or glued together, to make a nearly indestructable skin, or
at
> least an added measure of safety over a lighter skin hull?
After you finish the skin you will see that it is not necessary.
> 8) What is the best method of attaching skin to frame: sewing, gluing,
> tacked and covered with a rub rail, ???
On Wolfgang Brinck's baidarka, the skin is sewn on, either to itself (the
seam up the front and back decks) or to the wood (the attachment around the
coaming.) I have seen one King Island kayak that was probably a
turn-of-the-century boat, and the stitching on it looked as good as the day
it was done (well I really wouldn't know about that, but it looked good.)
> 9) How do you deal with shrinkage of the skin?
> Shrink it before you cut it ? After you sew it? Both ? Waht about
> different types of fabric?
Depends on the fabric. From what I have been able to determine about this
the canvas generally gets stretched pretty good at the installation, and
shrinkage is not a big problem. The synthetic materials seem to be a little
more difficult from the standpoint of shrinkage, as you have to
heat/warm/moisten them after installing the skin, but it's not enough of a
problem to keep lots of people from using synthetics. The synthetics do cost
more, though.
> 10) What material do you use for the top deck? Water-proof?
> Water-repellant?
Most commonly, the same material used for the hull. One piece construction.
Some folks might do something different to get a really really really light
hull, but generally it is just one layer of one material all around. The
amount of waterproofing on the top side is often just enough to proof the
skin against water, and not enough to completely fill the weave of the canvas
(as it is on the bottome) to save weight.
> 11) I am a Computer Aided Design (CAD) system administrator, and have been
> getting some of the designers at work curious about what can be done with
> skin boats, and so it might be possible to draw up some plans, if
> necessary. Also, I have ACAD lite on my PC at home, where I've been
> playing with different shapes and sizes.
Sounds cool! Would be nice to see.
> I am thoroughly enjoying my time learning and sharing about skin boats, so
> thanks in advance.
>
> Sincerely,
> Joe Traylor
>
Holler if you are anywhere near Spartanburg, SC, and you can come see my
frames.
Hope this helps! :)