From: "James Mitchell" <mariner@seanet.com>
To: <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
Subject: Re: baidarka ouchie?
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:12:02 -0700
After I pushed the send button, I grabbed your book again and looked up
where you are... sorry for such a dumb question. But it sure would be fun
to paddle together and share war stories on these hulls.
I also really enjoyed your comment about trying the single piece keelson...
it's so perfect because I am just exactly as afraid of trying the wrapped
lashings or a jointed keelson for exactly the same reason! And you are so
right about the ounce of experimentation. OK, OK, I'll get off my duff and
give it a whirl. And thanks again for making it so easy to try with your
book.
Do you know if the King Island or Nunivak hulls used the three piece keel?
I will be able to see an Ninivak in a couple weeks in Juneau and can check
on that one speciman, but I don't know of a King or Cape Espenberg in which
the keelson is really visible. Peter Corey has the Sheldon Jackson boat
mounted about six feet in the air; next trip maybe I will ask him if we can
climb up and peek inside.
The yellow cedar is getting harder to get down here, at least the really
good stuff. Rib stock for a single would cost about $50 on the open market
in the Seattle region, using yellow. Corey Freedman has managed to get some
out of the North Cascades and has been gracious enough to sell me some. Of
course, it is laying all over the beaches in Juneau...
Finished lashing the double today, thanks to a daughter and friend who know
something about boats. Am starting the deck beams now, and looking for some
bending oak for two long cockpit rims and one round doggie hatch in the
middle.
I really appreciate this dialog. Thanks for taking the time!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: wolfgang brinck <nativewater@yahoo.com>
To: <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: baidarka ouchie?
--- James Mitchell <mariner@seanet.com> wrote:
> I guess I am looking at the pattern of the lashing
> that is shown in the
> books, and can't imagine it being anywhere near as
> tight as a complete
> square lashing. Perhaps I am interpreting wrong? I
> will go give it a
> try... it just looks to me like it allows a lot more
> movement of the
> stringers than the method we are using.
>
You are probably right about relative tightness of
various lashings, though I think that in general, an
ounce of experimentation is worth a pound of
speculation. I had gotten the impression from your
earlier post that you were advocating intentionally
loose lashings. Apparently this is not what you were
saying.
> I have read where the skins would shrink to the
> point of breaking ribs, and
> every photo I have seen showed very tight skins. I
> guess I assumed that the
> tightness of the skins was holding the stringers in
> place, that the lashings
> were just to locate the stringers prior to skinning.
In use, the skin never gets as tight as in a museum
and the wood stays flexible. In museums, the wood
dries out and becomes brittle and the skins dry out
and tighten to the point of breaking the ribs. I don't
think that happens when you use a boat.
> Another factor: are
> the willow ribs anywhere near as stiff as the yellow
> cedar that we are
> using? We are using a 1/4" x 3/4" strip of yellow
> cedar, pre-bent by hand
> and installed wet.
Willow is not particularly strong, but it bends well.
I generally use 3/8 inch rounds because that bends
well green. Much thicker and there is too much loss to
breakage. Although any thinner than 3/8 inch in willow
will result in some breakage of ribs with use over
time. If you are using a long life synthetic skin, I
would probably recommend something more durable than
the 3/8 inch willow. Besides, willow is what is
available around here and yellow cedar is probably
what is available to you.
The stringers and the ribs go
> through a pull-up during
> the lashing that deforms both, usually pulling the
> rib toward the stringer
> but also pulling the stringer inward. The two
> cannot slip against each
> other at all, they are locked. There is a lot of
> flex over the length of
> the keel, and prior to skinning a lot of torque in
> the hull, but most of
> this comes out with a tight skin.
>
> Where are you located, Wolfgang? I'd love to come
> see your hulls someday.
> Do you ever get out our way?
>
I am located in Milwaukee, WI on the shore of Lake
Michigan - I presume you are somewhere on the West
Coast?