From: "James Mitchell" <mariner@seanet.com>
To: <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
Subject: Re: baidarka cockpit coaming size and rescue techniques
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:22:42 -0700
Well, to the extent that words can communicate this stuff, it sounds like I
may have been more successful in dumping water out of the boat than you have
been able to achieve... I know when I have a rescue boat, I can get it
almost dry. So look, let's doo some pool time this winter. I can get a
pool up here on occasion, or maybe you can get one down there, and let's go
play. Maybe we can come up with something everyone can use!
----- Original Message -----
From: Ve Smith <ve_hengda_smith@yahoo.com>
To: <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: baidarka cockpit coaming size and rescue techniques
I paddle with two big air bags most of the time, and use inflatable
floatation in the boat as well. I've never had to bail out in the wild,
so I'm not sure whether Airbag #1 or Airbag#2 could actually rescue me
in a pinch, but pool bailouts have indicated that my baidarka holds an
awful lot of water, even with floatation that occupies almost all the
space I'm not actually in. I have done the usual rescues, including
dragging the boat across another one to empty it, but it sure does bend
a lot when you do it.
Re-entry-and-roll is easy to perform, but leaves the boat with a lot of
water in it and so unstable that it's a handful to keep upright, even
in a pool. I doubt very much whether I would be able to stay
right-side-up for very long in rough conditions, and don't think
there's any possiblilty that I could pump out or eattach my spray skirt
without help.
Regards.
--- Harvey Golden <qayaq@pacifier.com> wrote:
> To Paul and all,
>
> Paul Banks brings up some very important issues with
> regards to safety. . .
> I'll ramble a bit on the subject. Certain
> skinboats are easier to re-enter
> than others: Eastern Arctic kayaks have level flat
> decks which support the
> paddle as an out-rigger better. Western Arctic
> types have the advantage of
> higher coamings, which prevent swamping better.
> However, neither general
> type is truly suited for such practice: The low
> flat decked kayaks swamp
> easily, and the higher ridged-decks are harder to
> get back into. I don't
> think re-entry rescues are viable enough to depend
> on, whether in a
> skin-boat or top o' the line glass.
>
> I strongly feel that when it comes down to it
> (especially when paddling
> solo), rolling is the only sure-bet. Yes, there are
> many things to
> facilitate a safe re-entry (pumps, floats,
> sea-socks, sea-wings, other
> kayaks, etc.) but a roll is quick and quite
> effortless when compared to the
> physical rigors of immersion, clambering up a wet
> kayak, and pumping like
> mad. Granted it takes skill and practice, but this
> is life insurance.
>
> Skinboats lack many safety features that modern
> boats have-especially
> bulkheads. I've test-swamped a kayak of mine, WITH
> bow and stern bags
> inflated, and it still didn't provide adequate
> buoyancy during the re-entry.
> But a 'seaworthy' kayak with all the modern safety
> amenities still should
> not be entirely depended on: It must be the skill
> and training of the
> kayaker. (I think the chaps that doubted the
> seaworthiness of traditional
> boats were barking up the wrong tree-I hope they
> don't depend on the kayak
> alone to get them out and back.)
>
> John Heath wrote a very valuable article in
> SeaKayaker magazine awhile back;
> I believe the article is called "Please Remain
> Seated." The title plainly
> shows John's view on such matters, a view gotten
> from extensive research,
> experience, and discussion with Inuit kayakers. It
> is well worth checking
> out, as well as John's other numerous articles in SK
> mag about Greenland
> kayaking techniques. I've heard John say "why leave
> a perfectly good boat.
> . . a life jacket has only about 12# buoyancy, while
> a kayak has many many
> times that. . ." John's writings have definitely
> had a profound impact in
> how I regard kayaking safety.
>
> I do ramble on a bit. . . has anyone out there got
> "real rescue experience?"
> I'm curious to know what works what doesn't, etc.
> from an actual experience
> point-of-view. What experiences do others have with
> the buoyancy of a
> swamped skin boat with flotation? I have practiced
> re-entries, but every
> time I've dumped in a 'real' situation, I've rolled
> for recovery. (I carry
> a pump and float just in case.)
> Harvey Golden qayaq@pacifier.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: paul banks <bckp@jps.net>
> To: baidarka list <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 8:59 PM
> Subject: baidarka cockpit coaming size and rescue
> techniques
>
>
> > Probably the small cockpit size will work to your
> advantage in a re-entry
> > and roll. If you can get into the boat right side
> up you can get into it
> > upside down. Too, once you do get into the boat
> it will be easier to get
> a
> > good grip on the boat to do your roll.
> >
> > Whether or not this is really a viable rescue
> technique in a skin (or any
> > other) boat without the assistance of other
> paddlers or a paddle float is
> > another question. If you have been practicing
> re-entry and rolls you know
> > that when you re-enter the boat it will have a lot
> of water in it even if
> > you have float bags, rendering you very unstable
> and therefore making it
> > very difficult to pump out, especially if it was
> rough conditions which
> made
> > you capsize in the first place. It is very
> difficult even in a fiberglass
> > boat with bulkheads and a deck mounted pump.
> Therefore, if one is
> > paddling alone, doing your roll with a paddle
> float attached would
> probably
> > be the best option in rough conditions, although
> it still isn't easy to
> > brace and pump simultaneously. A sea anchor could
> help. Clearly an
> > electric pump would help here, albeit with backup.
> >
> > Actually, the subject of rescue techniques and
> skin boats is an
> interesting
> > one to me. I have always had reservations about
> the safety of a skin boat
> > as compared to a modern fiberglass kayak with
> bulkheads. My formal kayak
> > training has been in the BCU system, which
> includes never paddling with
> > less than three people and if at all possible
> returning a capsized paddler
> > to an empty boat. Even so, I often paddle alone,
> including in my
> baidarka.
> > I do not claim to be knowledgable on the subject
> having paddled only for a
> > year and a half and built my baidarka only last
> winter, but I do know that
> > some of the rescue techniques taught to me for
> fiberglass boats are not so
> > easy in a baidarka. The standard method of
> returning a capsized paddler
> to
> > their boat, dragging the boat over yours to empty
> it, is not an attractive
> > one as rescuer or rescuee in I a baidarka (also
> in any boat without
> > bulkheads) although I have found that by using two
> stern style floatbags I
> > can pump out the boat in a reasonable amount of
> time. Mostly, I have
> > worked on acquiring a reliable roll.
> >
> > Some of the BCU trained types I have met seem to
> doubt the
> > seaworthness of traditional boats (and paddles).
> >
> > I have not heard much discussion among skin boat
> enthusiasts about safety
> > questions. I did observe at the Northeast skin
> boat gathering that nobody
> > was rolling their baidarkas. I wonder why, as I
> have grown used to
> seeing
> > the more experienced paddlers practicing their
> braces and rolls as a
> matter
> > of course on any outing.
> >
> > I like my baidarka and the greenland paddle I made
> ( but am still learning
> > how to use them). But I still take my Anas
> Acuta on my more challenging
> > trips.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I don't know any skin boat
> enthusiasts here in New York
> City.
> > I am always looking for reading on the subjuct and
> I will search archives,
> > but any comments would be appreciated.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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