Subject: Re: baidarka high aspect ratio paddle blades; lanceolate shapes; drag, inerti...
From: James Mitchell (mariner@seanet.com)
Date: Mon Mar 20 2000 - 01:45:19 EST
I have been watching this discussion of commercial paddles with great
interest, but also keeping a bit quiet on the subject because I am pretty
close to it. I do want to say a couple things at this stage.
I have watched my friends in the commercial world go through several
experiments, heavy and respectable testing, prototype development, and
phases in their growth. Often they have the resources and the motivation to
muster significant expertise and engineering talent, and I have high respect
for their skill, motivation, and accomplisments.
Commercial manufacturing of paddles is a completely different ball game than
what we hobbiests see. They must market to a large audience; I only have one
person to please, critic though he tends to be. Often, the style of paddle
they are building does not fit my style of paddling. That does not mean
they are building a bad paddle; far from it. It only means that my reasons
for paddling, my style, and my skill do not match the particular product
they are marketing. I have seen first hand the investment, organization,
intensity, and moral fortitude that it takes to maintain a company that
employs 50 or so people building kayak paddles to meet the marketing demand
of the general kayaking public, as expressed through orders that have been
filtered through hundreds of commercial kayak shops all around the world.
It is a different ball game than the one we play.
Acknowledging that, let's do look at their results. One of the commercial
standards, the Werner Camano, is a pioneering effort at the use of
composites to build a touring blade for the general public. Granted, for my
use the Camano is too large a blade; but for someone built to handle that
blade and whose style of paddling fits the larger blade, I submit that this
industry standard is a darn respectable product. It is strong in the right
places, without sacrificing weight (runs about 32 oz.; look carefully at the
blade tip). Wide as it is, you can draw on this blade with a flat hand with
almost no flutter. It makes a quiet entry and exit. Foam cores and shaft
plugs allow it to float safely, carrying most of it's own weight when
submerged for each stroke. Great care is taken to make the center joint fit
securely without binding. The shaft is ovaled to fit curled fingers, much
like our blades. If you need to feather it, you can. If you need a spare,
it breaks apart for storage. It is strong enough to take a shore brace for
entry and exit. The structure and the cosmetics stand up to hard use, as
opposed to some of the lighter weight composite paddles I have tested. And
as for that testing, that blade does some very subtle things. The dihedral
on the power surface and the return angles on the back side allow it to
create much higher drawing force than some of its imitators. You won't see
that when you look on the shelf at REI, and you probably won't notice it
much when paddling short test runs, but you will find it beneficial over a
long tour.
You are right about rigidity. That is one of the characteristics of
composite products in general, their rigidity and strength allows the weight
reduction. And, I don't care for rigid paddles. But the Camano is not made
for me, it is made to fit the other 90% of paddlers. So I carry one on my
back deck just in case my redcedar blades don't make it home -- hasn't
happened yet (knock on redcedar), but if it ever does, my old blue-and-white
keeps me safe. And I would love to see what a composite Aleut blade would
feel like, whether we could bring that blade in at about 20 oz., how it
would feel in a low brace. Maybe some day we will get to try that out.
Maybe, if we can develop designs that are proven well enough to be
attractive to that commercial market.
Peter, Wolf, we are the dreamers. But, given the world they live and work
in, so are the folks at places like Werner Paddles.
----- Original Message -----
From: wolfgang brinck <nativewater@yahoo.com>
To: <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 8:06 AM
Subject: RE: baidarka high aspect ratio paddle blades; lanceolate shapes;
drag, inerti...
A few years back, after measuring a bunch of native
canoe paddles in museums and collections around
northern Wisconsin and checking their heft and flex, I
went into some canoe/kayak stores and tested
comparable commercial products. Without exception, the
commercial products were stiffer. Furthermore,
stiffness of the native paddles varied along the
length of the paddle. Commercial paddles seemed to
lack any such subtlety.
I am not proposing that native paddle technology was
vastly superior to modern commercial technology, it
just seems that mass market commercial paddle designs
seemed to be lacking in subtlety, most likely a
consequence of market forces and the fact that people
will spend several hundred dollars for a paddle even
though it isn't very good. Why sell better paddles if
people can't tell the difference and will buy
anything?
Wolfgang
--- "Peter A. Chopelas" <pac@premier1.net> wrote:
> John,
>
> Please do not misunderstand my general criticisms of
> current paddle
> manufactures, I know of a number of very advanced
> looking and probably very
> thoughtful designs available. And I know next to
> nothing about competitive
> paddle sports, (methods, equipment, etc.) so I was
> not directing my
> complaints at anyone in particular, though perhaps
> my past experience with
> other sports equipment manufacturers may have
> colored the tone of my
> diatribe. If you feel I was criticizing you or your
> work please forgive me
> because that was not my intention.
>
> You see I had just come from looking at the paddles
> available at the
> Seattle REI store and I was quite disappointed.
> Even their best model, a
> $300. carbon graphite double ended paddle, had a
> very poor blade design on
> it. There was no reason for this, even on the
> "inexpensive" $80 paddles, a
> little bit of thought and looking at what the good
> designers are doing
> would not have added any cost to the paddle and
> would have resulted in a
> much better product.
>
> You are right, if recreational paddlers want the
> good designs they are
> available, they are expensive and are not readily
> available at most
> recreational shops (probably because few will buy
> them because of the
> cost). It appears the larger manufactures of
> recreational paddles simply
> ignore the good designs all around them coming from
> the specialty shops.
> It is unfortunate but I have had a lot of bush-offs
> from big companies
> like that so I do not even bother approaching them
> anymore. I would simply
> like to walk into an REI and buy a well designed
> paddle, I would also like
> to see these improved designs made easily available
> to the average
> recreational paddlers. They can generally not
> afford to spend a lot $ and
> they usually do not consider hunting down and
> learning about all that is
> available.
>
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