Subject: Re: baidarka Dyson style sharpie; was river boat
From: Douglas Ingram (redcanoe@pangea.ca)
Date: Thu Nov 09 2000 - 11:02:13 EST
> P.S. You wrote: " I will, of course,
> > defere to your knowledge and experience in this."
> --- Don't do that! I have neither, since in my studies, they have
> equally cancelled eachother out: The more I experience, the less I
"know,"
> and the more I know, the less I can objectively experience!
> > Harvey,
And that, dear Harvey, is why I like you so much. I understand exactly what
you mean, and feel the same most of the time. I, myself, have been acused
of being vaque, specifically for that reason. How in the world does one, in
good concience, give a definitive answer when there is none? I can always
say, with certainty, "It depends..."
Yet, in maters kayakical, you have built maby more kayaks than I have. So,
in this respect, I defer to you. Now, if you want to start talking about
canoes, that's when I start to think that I know a little bit, at least
enough to say, "It depends..."
Douglas
> > I'm going to go double check the Umiak drawings that I have. In my
> > recollection, there was still a slight curvature to the sections, and
the
> > flatish sections weren't entirely flat like a pancake. I will, of
course,
> > defere to your knowledge and experience in this.
> >
> > Any flat section that is well supported by an adequate framework will
> still
> > be successful. It is the unsupported sections of skin that becomes the
> area
> > of concern, ie. how far apart are the stringers and ribs, etc..
> >
> > As many here know, I build wood & canvas canoes, which are just another
> way
> > of building a skin and frame boat. The biggest difference is that the
> > stringers, now called planking, are wide and thin, and are placed edge
to
> > edge, forming a continuous surface to support the canvas skin. Even on
> the
> > big "freighters" that I am sometimes called upon to work on, the flat
> > sections are never entirely flat and will always exhibit some degree of
> > curvature, so that the skin, while under tension, has a continuous
surface
> > supporting it.
> >
> > Douglas
> >
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Douglas Ingram <redcanoe@pangea.ca
> > >
> > > > All of the skin on frame boats that I have seen have the skin in a
> state
> > > of
> > > > continusous tension, that is, they are wrapped around a frame. Flat
> and
> > > > concave shapes were avoided.
> > > >
> > > > A greenland kayak may exhibit flat sections, but they are fairly
> narrow
> > > when
> > > > compared to the great expanse of flat section seen in a sharpie.
> > > ......
> > > > Umiaks, though large, had rounded hulls which would support the skin
> and
> > > > keep it under tension.
> > >
> > > Most Umiaks were actually flat-bottomed, or extremely shallow
> "V"
> > > bottomed. The sides were also usually 'slab', and often flared quite
> > > dramatically (as in a Lumber Bateaux). Douglas' reasoning is very
valid
> > of
> > > course, but such 'great expanses of flat section' are indeed
precedented
> > in
> > > Umiaks. (My Umiak replica is of such a 'dory-type', with a 42" wide
> > bottom,
> > > 68" beam, and a depth-to-sheer of 22-1/2"-- very hard-chined as well.)
> > The
> > > 'continuous tension' that Douglas mentions definitely would seem to be
> > > stronger and less likely to lose its shape, though many other factors
> > exist.
> > >
> > > Harvey Golden
> > >
> > >
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