Subject: Re: baidarka rib placement, backrests, knee braces, etc
From: Peter Manders (manderspw@sprintmail.com)
Date: Tue Oct 31 2000 - 22:33:05 EST
I agree with all of this, and would add that my baidarka reproduction
balances with a more even keel fore-aft when I am seated centered in the
cockpit rather than with my back up against the rear of the coaming. Like
Harvey, I'm convinced this is how the originals were used.
After reviewing most of the published drawings showing rib and thwart
placement, I concluded that in the traditional seating arrangement one's
toes and ball of foot press
against the aft face of a thwart; heels fall in the space between two ribs
(which occurs naturally when thwart mortices are made to coincide
longitudinally with rib
mortices); and the thwart which runs under the front of the
coaming takes the load and provides control when rolling. Buttocks also
fall between two ribs so there is no tendency to inch forward or aft, and
the paddler's weight is not concentrated on a single rib. While I pamper my
rear with a Thermarest, it's actually not that uncomfortable with less.
In other words, the low spots of the paddler's body coincide with spaces
between ribs, which is more comfortable, spreads loads, and allows a lower
deck height for a given size of foot.
Other than creating a space for one's heels just aft of the footbrace
thwart, I can see no reason to have the thwart mortices coincide with the
rib mortices, indeed there is good reason not to have this arrangement
because two holes at the same point of the gunwale weaken it more than if
they were spaced apart (which appears to be the norm in Greenland boats).
Since the coincident arrangement seems to be universal in baidarkas I assume
there is some good reason for it. Any other theories?
I find this a comfortable arrangement, and the rear of the coaming does not
interfere with a lay-back roll recovery. With a thwart running across the
middle of one's thighs it's difficult to fall out accidentally when rolling,
and you don't have to pay much attention to bracing yourself into the boat
because that thwart is right there when you need it.
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: Harvey Golden <qayaq@pacifier.com>
To: baidarka@lists.intelenet.net <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
Date: Sunday, October 29, 2000 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: baidarka backrests, knee braces, etc
>Dear Phil,
>As for paddling position in a baidarka. . . From my experience using a
>variety of sizes of baidarkas (all replicas), I've found that the most
ideal
>(for comfort and control) position is to be seated towards the front of the
>cockpit. What we call a 'back-rest' is not always a back-rest. I sit well
>forward, which 1), gives me good paddle reach over the deep and wide front
>of the cockpit coaming, 2), allows for extremely secure bracing with my
>knees agianst the forward cockpit deack-beam, and 3), allows for a
>considerable lay-back when rolling, as the back of the cockpit is not right
>against my back (or even near it) when I'm in the paddling position.
>
>As for the secure bracing, I do this with my heels together, and my knees
>well apart, and my legs against the deck-beam ends where they meet the
>gunwales. It takes getting used to, but I routinely roll my 26" wide, 10"
>deep (overall) Kodiak Baidarka replica this way, and I use no padding or
>foot-braces-- just a flat pad to sit on. I'm convinced that this is
exactly
>how the originals were used, and there are many illustrations and photos
>about to suggest this. (I may of course be entirely wrong, but this does
>work well for me.) Some very good photos of a King Islander rolling
appear
>in David Zimmerly's book "QAJAQ" (now being reprinted as "QAYAQ"). . . .
the
>paddler is clearly seated well forward in the cockpit.
> I hope this helps. . . anyone else find that this works?
> All the Best,
> Harvey
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Phil Ellis <pcoellis@hotmail.com>
>To: <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
>Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 7:34 AM
>Subject: baidarka backrests, knee braces, etc
>
>
>> 'Morning All,
>>
>> I'm a little confused over the relationship of the baidarka's parts as
>they
>> affect paddling position. When I built mine, I found that cutting the
>masik
>> to a good shape for a knee brace made it so low that getting my butt over
>> the coaming required my knees to bend backwards, which they don't do very
>> well. So I lowered the back of the coaming some and raised the masik a
>> little and it helped, then last Winter I went the whole way and lowered
>the
>> rear deck almost flat, which also made laybacks easier. A recent photo a
>> friend sent me shows, however, the the boat now has way more rocker than
>it
>> should have, which could either be because it spent most of the Summer
>> upside-down on my roof rack or because I destroyed the structural
>integrity
>> of the frame (the deck stringer-cockpit arrangement seems to function as
a
>> compression strut between the stem and stern to limit longitudinal
>flexure)
>> by my ill-advised tinkering.
>>
>> This Winter I plan to return it to the way it's really supposed to be,
>with
>> a masik whose only job is to hold the deck stringer up and the cockpit in
>> place, a raised rear deck, and a level coaming, but I'm curious: is there
>> any indication that the Aleuts used the masik as a knee brace in the way
>> that Greenlanders do? (My own experience is that locking my knees into
the
>> masik makes the boat more controllable, but initial stability is greater
>> with my legs flat on the floor). What do Alaskan Inuit paddlers do? What
>> about King Islanders (who, if I'm not mistaken, are the only
>well-documented
>> rollers in this group)? Is there relavant literature on the subject?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
>> http://profiles.msn.com.
>>
>> -
>> Baidarka Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be
>> reproduced outside Baidarka or Baidarka archives without author's
>permission
>> Submissions: baidarka@lists.intelenet.net
>> Subscriptions: baidarka-request@lists.intelenet.net
>> Searchable archive: http://rtpnet.org/robroy/baidarka
>>
>>
>
>-
>Baidarka Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be
>reproduced outside Baidarka or Baidarka archives without author's
permission
>Submissions: baidarka@lists.intelenet.net
>Subscriptions: baidarka-request@lists.intelenet.net
>Searchable archive: http://rtpnet.org/robroy/baidarka
>
>
-
Baidarka Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be
reproduced outside Baidarka or Baidarka archives without author's permission
Submissions: baidarka@lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions: baidarka-request@lists.intelenet.net
Searchable archive: http://rtpnet.org/robroy/baidarka
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b27 : Wed Nov 01 2000 - 01:00:01 EST