Subject: Re: baidarka COPYRIGHT
From: RCH3149@aol.com
Date: Fri Dec 01 2000 - 07:49:34 EST
Hello, Gerald!
Point-by-point for the record (before we take this off-list if you wish to
pursue it further):
G: I pointed on the CD for the low band-width internet user. As far as I know
that CD is sold for nearly it's material price and shipping cost only
R: 60.00 DM (used to be USD 30 or so) is about material, shipping and
handling costs for Lorenz Mayr when he send someone the manuscript of his
book.
G: I also know that Lorenz' book doesn't return his expenses but he still
owns the copyright because he is the one putting that stuff to paper. So
third-parties have to credit him for his tremendous work when publishing his
work somewhere else.
R: Are you suggesting that I'm ripping him off, too (as well as the poor,
unsuspecting, ignorant, sheep-to-the-slaughter subscribers of the baidarka
and folding boats mailing lists)? That I'm secretly squirreling his
information away into the English language so that I can get rich marketing
it without his knowledge? That he knows nothing of this whole project? That
I'm trying to take the credit for the information he has gathered, compiled,
edited and disseminated? Mr. Mayr did try to dissuade me from undertaking the
work on HIS book (with my humble additions), but only because he had already
gone through the work and did not want to see me disappointed by the same
lack of (commercial?) lack of response. For the record: The work I'm doing
with Lorenz Mayr's original book has his full support.
G: I do not have any problem with providing the information in a book or
website but with stripping off the original maintainer and source.
R: Who said anything about stripping away the credits?!? "Forwarding" email
is, in fact, the best way of preserving all credits, headers, return paths
WITHOUT having to cut and paste not only the excerpts, BUT ALSO THE CREDITS!!
Why are you looking for ghosts and conspiracies here?!? Have you ever seen me
stripping away source information on anything?!? Why this accusation?
G: About the list-members I mentioned:
You and Marian Gunkel (mentioned as Admin in your list) found in PouchBoats
Discussion Forum: Test Messages: New test (Marian is hosting a list-server
about the project I mentioned, their primary aims are somewhat documented in
http://www.egroups.com/message/faltboot/22 for those who are able to read
german
R: Now you are on thin ice. If you are going to allude publicly to informal
correspondence that took place at the vision and planning stage of a
particular project, then please have the courtesy to read all of it, at least
through to the conlusion. Also have the courtesy to read earlier portions of
it and if anything remains unclear, contact the original authors for
clarification before you publish the results of your half-baked conclusions
in a forum where the readers have even less of a chance to get to the full
story and have no choice but to rely on your report. Exactly this kind of
half-cocked approach is the reason for the hullaballoo on PW regarding Ralph
Diaz's contributions: QUOTING OUT OF CONTEXT (well, the parallel is a little
lopsided since you only pointed to the source, but the principle remains the
same). I suggest strongly that you retract your allegations and, if you are
truly interested, you and I can go through the whole story off-list until you
are satisfied that there is nothing untoward, underhanded, devious,
yankee-capitalistic going on. If you then still think I'm a crook, feel free
to say so publicly in any forum you like. Other than that leave me in peace
with my hobby of skin-on-frame boats, which includes collecting, digesting,
and disseminating information about it!
G: So, call me an a.... but when I read your question and thought about
forwarding part of mails somewhere else I came to the point that baidarka
list infos should always be quoted with source and original author,
everywhere.
R: That would go without saying, Gerald, but even that should not take place
since
"All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside Baidarka
or Baidarka archives without author's permission". Hence my request for
denial, er, ... permission!! And, please note, that no one has as yet
objected to their posts being forwarded (in their entirety with due
recognitions and indication of the sourcce) to another NON-COMMERCIAL mailing
list. Folding boat builders would be interested in questions of materials and
their use. Nothing more, nothing less. I am sufficiently sensitive to having
my own statements used elsewhere to ensure that due credit be given.Also,
where does this bit about forwarding "part of mails" come from in the first
place?!?
G: As you might already know, I am German, know a little about Pouch boats
and see myself as a pretender of the folding kayak and the distribution of
valuable info.
R: I, too, am German, Gerald, which is one reason why your self-appointed
policing of imagined, potential future transgressions and your embarking on a
witch hunt of the supposed transgressors bothers me so. What bothers me even
more is that you went off entirely half-cocked, and that you did so in a
medium which gives you ample opportunity to think before you hit the send
button.
G: Please don't get me wrong, I NEVER want to discredit your business!
R: Which "business" would that be? And you have already made enough of an
attempt at discrediting whatever it is that you're trying to discredit.
G: But give Caesar what is Caesars. :-)
R: Presumably you are familiar with Lorenz Mayr's book and are therefore
familiar with how meticulous he is about crediting all sources at the turn of
every page. You already did a great job discrediting this project by jumping
in with your hobnailed boots where you have only bothered to check on a
fraction of the information and background. You are a member of three mailing
lists to which I also subscribe. Have you ever seen me quote anything or
anyone without giving the source?!? In fact, I've taken my share of ribbing
because I ALWAYS make sure that each shred of each piece of correspondence to
which I might be answering is attributed to the original author. Thanks for
you imperial advice, I've been living by it.
G: Cheers Gerald
R: No cheers from this corner.
Ralph
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