Subject: Re: baidarka Atlantic white cedar for gunwales?
From: James Mitchell (mariner@seanet.com)
Date: Sat Dec 02 2000 - 20:55:39 EST
The ribs are 3/4" x 1/4", on 4" spacing up to the cockpit with 3" through
the cockpit area. I use a router table to route an oval slot into the
bottom of the gunwales. It is a delicate and somewhat unsafe operation, so
be very careful. It is easy to ruin a gunwale. So far, that has not
happened. My mortises come out pretty good, and have had only minimal probs
with splitting. Besides, with this many ribs, the structure is so overbuilt
that it can take all kinds of abuse. Well, almost...
You might remember a few months back I reported dropping Orca off my
shoulder while carrying her up some log steps from a beach in Canada. She
came down hard on the edge of the steps, and I heard that fateful "crack"
sound. This was a few days before Thetis, so I crossed a few body parts and
stuck her on the boat for the islands. We paddled her for four days of
rescue practice knowing only that the hull looked a bit strange about a
third of the way back down the keel. After Thetis, I took her home and
skinned her. The keel was snapped in half. One rib was broken clear
through, three others were cracked. Took me a couple weeks to rebuild and
fix about a dozen other problems with her, so now she is healthy as new.
Also faster and much more stable. Bottom line: these hulls are really
tough. I think a fiberglass hull in a similar accident would be shattered
in half.
How'd I get off on that side path? I use the router table and special
guides to do the mortise; Corey does all this with a hand-held router! If
you want to know more, give me a call at 425-423-0811.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lafayette Bingham" <Bingham@tcn.org>
To: <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 6:35 AM
Subject: RE: baidarka Atlantic white cedar for gunwales?
> James -- Can you talk a little about the shape and size of the 'sticks'
> you're using for the ribs? I'm at the point where I was about to go out
and
> 'molest' some willow trees!
>
> What dimensions are you cutting the cedar before you smooth them? Are
these
> pieces round or oval? Are you using a 'steam box' for bending? Are the
> ribs inserted while they are still warm or do you have a jig where they're
> cooled first then fitted? I guess the question is, 'What's the skinny
with
> the yellow cedar ribs'?
>
> Thanks in advance for your time...
>
> L. Bingham (Bing)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Mitchell [mailto:mariner@seanet.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 11:45 PM
> To: baidarka@lists.intelenet.net
> Subject: Re: baidarka Atlantic white cedar for gunwales?
>
>
> OK, lots of talk about red and yellow cedar. Yellow is a bit hard to come
> by these days, and beach logging is a good alternative. If anyone wants
to
> deal with the shipping, I know some beach loggers in Sitka who will get
you
> whatever wood you want.
>
> As for red vs. yellow, Corey and I both use redcedar almost exclusively
for
> gunwales and keels. If we get a good piece of Sitka, we will use that.
> Occasionally yellow, but Corey likes to keep it for hulls that need a lot
> more strength and a lot more bend to the wood -- usually the umiaks. Also
> yellow adds a lot of weight over red. What we really use the yellow for is
> rib stock, where its superior bending qualities are appreciated. And for
> that, you can use relatively short chunks that can easily be beach logged.
> If anyone in the Seattle area wants to try some, I have a stash here in
> Everett.
>
> We have also used Douglas fir and pine for gunwales, when it was more
> available than the other woods. It is significantly stronger than cedar,
so
> a narrower section can be used to save some of the weight. The principle
> detriment is weight; but for some the extra five pounds won't really
matter.
> I see no reason one could not use almost any reasonably straight wood.
When
> I was building dog sleds, we used both ash and hickory with good results.
> Here again, balance the strength of the wood against thickness to conserve
> weight.
>
> Overall, red cedar remains my first choice for gunwales and keels. I do
> have one really fine keel cut from a piece of yellow, and a set of Sitka
> gunwales for that boat -- the new King Island double that I am planning.
> The other new hulls will be straight redcedar, with yellow ribs.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Owen Davies" <owen@davies.mv.com>
> To: <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 8:45 AM
> Subject: Re: baidarka Atlantic white cedar for gunwales?
>
>
> > Mark Reuten advised:
> >
> >
> > > Northern white is the prefered variety for boatbuilding but primarily
> for
> > > planking skiffs. It is extremely light and I think tougher than red
but
> > for
> > > baidarke gunnels I suggest alaskan yellow cedar (old growth cypress).
It
> > is
> > > the primary skin on frame material in our shop as it has the highest
rot
> > > resistance and a good strenght to weight ratio. Sitka spruce is our
> second
> > > choice but expensive and rot prone. Corey Freedman used red allot but
> > I've
> > > heard he has switched to yellow. If for no other reason, yellow can
be
> > > found up to twenty feet in clear 2x4 here in Vancouver.
> >
> > Anyone have any suggestions for someone stuck in New Hampshire?
> > Atlantic white cedar is easy enough to find, but the other choices
haven't
> > panned out in previous searches.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Owen Davies
> >
> > -
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> >
>
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