Subject: Re: baidarka Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:58:26 -0800
From: Douglas Ingram (redcanoe@pangea.ca)
Date: Tue Dec 05 2000 - 10:17:44 EST
A few observations, if I may.
Deadrise is the angle that the bottom of the boat establishes using the keel
or centerline as the point of the angle, and a horizontal line, called the
baseline. For example, a perfectly flat bottom boat has zero deadrise.
Flare is one term ( tumblehome and plumb being the others) used to describe
the angle that the sides make relative to a verticle line parallel to the
centerline.
It has been my observation, when working on canoes when the thwarts are
removed, that the sides want to spread outwards, therby increasing flare,
and having comparatively little effect upon dearise.
The increase in flare effected upon an already built structure is coincident
with an increase in curvature of the gunnels, that is, they are less
straight. Now, as the gunnel is a fixed length, this increase in curvature
has the interesting effect of reducing the distance between the stems.
While the difference will not dramatically affect the boats length, it is
enough to significantly affect the amount of rocker. As the stems are
pulled closer together, they are pulled up. If you need help to visualize
this, use a letter envelope to simulate the boat.
Douglas Ingram
----- Original Message -----
From: James Mitchell <mariner@seanet.com>
To: <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: baidarka Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:58:26 -0800
> If I understand your terms correctly, I am talking about the angle of the
> deadrise. You are correct about the "V" being decreased at the keel.
> Because of the way I did this, the effect is proportionally larger as you
> approach the gunwale; therefore there is very little impact on waterline;
> and even less impact on the angles at the keel. I haven't had a chance to
> paddle in wind yet, and such would be a very subjective test anyway;
> however, Heron and Orca have much the same flare/keel arrangement and
track
> very well.
>
> I would guess that the tightness of the skin has more to do with tracking
> than the changes I made. Because of some unfortunate temperature and
> humidity changes, Raven's skin came out looser than I wanted (hurray for
> working outside). But one benefit of a loose skin is better tracking,
> because the keel and the stringers become more exposed as the skin wraps
> around them.
>
> Incidentally, Raven, Orca, and Chinook are all for sale if anyone is
> interested.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Native Ways" <nativeways@hotmail.com>
> To: <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 1:54 PM
> Subject: Re: baidarka Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:58:26 -0800
>
>
> > James,
> > When you peak of "flare" are you talking about the beam, or the dead
rise
> > from the keel to the chine, making it more of a V hull? It sounds like
you
> > increased the beam on Raven at mid-ships but left the old ribs as-is
which
> > would, I think, flatten the bottom a little, effectively making less
"V",
> > and a shallower cock-pit area. No? How is tracking with a beam wind
> compared
> > to before?
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > >From: "James Mitchell" <mariner@seanet.com>
> > >Reply-To: baidarka@lists.intelenet.net
> > >To: <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
> > >Subject: Re: baidarka Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:58:26 -0800
> > >Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 18:32:55 -0800
> > >MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > >From owner-baidarka@ns1.intelenet.net Sat Dec 02 18:47:18 2000
> > >Message-ID: <006e01c05cd1$58265000$c79c2640@hjdm2528>
> > >References: <OE69qJfhUbfh9aKOMpZ00002180@hotmail.com>
> > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
> > >Sender: owner-baidarka@lists.intelenet.net
> > >Precedence: list
> > >
> > >Yeah, I think flare has a lot more to do with the stability than does
> width
> > >per se. Since our discussion, I completed and tested Raven. I can now
> hang
> > >her on her gunwale and spin her; previously, I couldn't take my eyes
off
> > >the
> > >water. This is the second hull I have done this too, the first being
> Orca,
> > >with same result. And Heron, which was designed from the beginning with
> the
> > >additional secondary flare, I have actually dosed off while sitting in
> the
> > >reeds at Spencer Island in the late afternoon summer sun. I think you
> > >could
> > >fish all day in that boat.
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Phil Sharp" <srelt@msn.com>
> > >To: "BaidarkaSubmission" <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 5:22 PM
> > >Subject: Re: baidarka Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:58:26 -0800
> > >
> > >
> > > > Thanks for the idea James. I had not considered doing it that way.
I
> > >had
> > > > thought about increasing gunwale width, but then proportionately
> > >increasing
> > > > the stringer width as well, and maybe adding one more stringer each
> > >side
> > >to
> > > > support the added width. Your idea is intiguing, though. Now, do
you
> > >do
> > >any
> > > > fishing from your kayak, and if not, do you think you could if you
> > >wanted
> > >to?
> > > > Sorry it took me so long to get back to you; I have been out of
town.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phil Sharp
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > SeaCaller
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: James Mitchell
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 9:39 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: baidarka@lists.intelenet.net
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Re: baidarka Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:58:26 -0800
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phil, I recently modified my first hull to increase its stability.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Originally it was 17'-2" x 20.5", now it is 17'-1.5" by 22.25". All
> the
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > increase is at the gunwale. I replaced all the deck beams to
increase
> > >the
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > width, moving the old ones forward a station (and retrimming them).
> > >Most
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > had to be replaced.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The modification has worked very well. With no noticeable impact on
> > >speed,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have easily increased the effective stability nearly double to the
> > >point
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > where I can hang the hull on its gunwale clear above the cockpit
rim.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Prior, if I tried that, it would have capsized. What I have
confirmed
> > >here
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > is the impact of flare on the stability. I would encourage you to
> build
> > >as
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > much flare into your hull as possible. That way the stability will
be
> > >there
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > when needed, but won't slow you down when you don't.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: "Phil Sharp" <srelt@msn.com>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: "BaidarkaSubmission" <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 8:26 AM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Do any of you fish regularly from your Baidarkas? If so, did you
> > >change
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > the
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > dimensions to make it more stable? What are those
> dimensions--length,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > width?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > SeaCaller
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> >
>srelt@msn.com___________________________________________________________
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