Subject: Re: baidarka Angle grinders
From: James Mitchell (mariner@seanet.com)
Date: Fri Dec 29 2000 - 23:45:50 EST
Doug, could you please send me the web site again for the pictures of your
paddles? Thanks!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Ingram" <redcanoe@pangea.ca>
To: <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: baidarka Angle grinders
> John,
>
> I'm waiting for my present Black & Decker Industrial/professiomnal
grinder
> to wear out. Its taking a long time. The only real complaint that I have
> about it is the locking mechanism to hold the spindle firm whilst you
twist
> the discs to change them. It uses a little button on top of the grinder
> head, and after awhile it doesn't hold the spindle.
>
> Go for a grinder that allows you to set a wrench around the spindle.
>
> Last time I looked at grinders, I was favourable impressed by the Porter
> Cable unit. It had the essential features that I liked about the B&W
unit,
> plus the wrench option. On the B&W unit, I like the switch, which is a
long
> lever along the bottom with an integral safety lock. You pick up the
> grinder and turn it on all with unified motions. If for some reason you
let
> the grinder go, fall, cut yourself, etc, you let go of the grinder and it
> turns off. Not something that happens with other kinds of switches.
>
> Weight is an issue. You should be able tohold and control the unit with
one
> hand if needed, and you should be able to use it over a period of time.
So
> check for vibration too.
>
> While I recognize the value of vacume attachments, the unfortunate reality
> is that they hinder to work. So does that D--- extra handle that seems
like
> such a great idea for other applications. The finger guard befalls much
the
> same fate. These features pretty much force you to work with just the
front
> edge of the disc, when you really want to work with the sides too.
>
> Learn to work with the flat of the disc when neccessary, and with the edge
> for deep digging. Set the trailing edge of the disc, relative to the
> movement of the disc across the work surface, to the work. If you use the
> leading edge you risk having it "bump" into something and gouging deeper
> into the wood that you want as it stops its travel.
>
> Keep your arm moving in smooth controlled movements. any ingering will
> cause the grinder to remove excess stock locally. Pay attention to your
> speed of movement, and your ability to hold the grinder so that the disc
> presents flat. Working on the edge makes it VERY difficult to acheive
> anything like a smooth surface. Leave the edge for diggin deep
>
> I use 24 grit fiber backed discs for general shaping, and 100 grit discs
for
> surfacing, form that point I am ready to sand. I have been very
frustrated
> getting good disc backers to keep the disc stiff enough, or flexible
enough,
> and with close enough support. In the end, I just put two discs behind
the
> one I am working with. Fiber backed discs like to bend with changes in the
> humidity, store them firmly flat, and if you stack them as backers, place
> them 90 degrees to each other to cancel out the curves.
>
> Well, back out to the shop to make some more dust with my grinder.
Nothing
> like shaping a dozen paddle blades at a time to make you appreciate a good
> grinder. Which brings me to the most important point:
>
> PRATCICE! PRACTICE! PRACTICE!!!!
>
> I always tell my students that fast tools make fast mistakes, and pay
> attention to where your fingers are at all times!
>
> Good luck.
>
> Douglas Ingram
> Red River Canoe & Paddle
> Lorette, Manitoba
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Gerlach <gerlach1@pacbell.net>
> To: <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 1:44 PM
> Subject: RE: baidarka Angle grinders
>
>
> > Ok, I'm interested in trying one of these magical tools. Do the artistic
> > grinders on the list have any suggestions as to techniques, brands,
size,
> > setup, vacuum attachments, disks, etc.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John Gerlach
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-baidarka@lists.intelenet.net
> > [mailto:owner-baidarka@lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Douglas Ingram
> > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 10:01 AM
> > To: baidarka@lists.intelenet.net
> > Subject: Re: baidarka FW: Aleut Paddle
> >
> >
> > Hi James,
> >
> > Philip answered the "what's an angle grinder! question pretty well. I
> would
> > add that I never put 4" discs on a 4" grinder. I always use 5". This
> > allows a bit of flex to the edge of the disc, giving me more of a feel
of
> > what I am doing, and allowing me to work the disc flatter. The 4" discs
> are
> > much stiffer and force you to work more on its edge. I have, in the
past,
> > put 8" discs on the small grinder, this allows the discs to be worked
very
> > flat, as it will actuall bend to the work.
> >
> > This is the most valuable shaping tool that I own. Some have joked that
> it
> > is my "magic" tool, I use it for so many different tasks, it would be
> > difficult to list. I would encourage anyone who does much complex wood
> > shaping to become familiar with its capacities.
> >
> > Sure, it makes a lot of dust. I do not believe that it is panacea for
> every
> > task or situation. I will offer this, though, that when one is working
to
> > close tolerances, abrasives often offer greater control in varying grain
> > conditions than cutting tools. Perhaps I should restate that as being
> more
> > consistently predictable. Also, for many complex shaping situations, it
> is
> > very fast and predictable. I can't think of a better way to carve
portage
> > yokes.
> >
> > 600 paddle, soon to be 620, isn't such a big deal. If its your work,
and
> > you've been doing it for awhile, it all adds up. If you would like to
> take
> > a look at them, go to: www.wilds.mb.ca/redriver
> >
> > I am curious to see how long it takes me to make up the Aleut paddle. I
> > just got my brother to acces the file for, and he is printing it up for
> me.
> > I am looking forward to seeing the drawings. I am going to try it out
> first
> > for my 10 year old son. anyone have thoughts about proper scaling?
> >
> > We are also starting up a kayak for him over the christmas break. A
good
> > father son project. Still thinking about what to build, I expect that I
> > will finalize that as we start.
> >
> > Oh, back to those sailing boats. I do like the Haven 12 1/2 a lot. But
> if
> > I am going to go through the effort of building a sailing boat, my
> ambitions
> > for its use will be more ambitious than day sailing. I want something
> that
> > can keep on going. For day sailing, I would rather rig up a canoe.
> >
> > I have always loved the look and philosohpy of Albert Strange's boats.
> > Especially Sheila, Sheila II, and Wenda. Roxanne has slowly woven her
> spell
> > over me with her inherent virtues. Speed, seaworthiness, shallow draft,
> > trailerability, interior space, that great big cockpit, and the absence
of
> > all complex rigging. She looks great and apologizes for nothing.
> >
> > Douglas Ingram
> > Red River Canoe & Paddle
> > Lorette, Manitoba
> >
> > > So what's an angle grinder? I've never heard of one... and am very
> > > interested. 600 paddles is a major accomplishment!
> > >
> > > At Friday, 22 December 2000, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >James, I can't conceive of working without my angle grinder, I'd
> > > be lost
> > > >without it. It has been the tool of choice for over 600 paddles
> > > now. With
> > > >a little practice I am sure that most people could be able to control
> > > it.
> > > >Choosing the right grit is very important.
> > > >
> > > >Once you get the hang of it, you can do amazing things, and with more
> > > >control than you'd think. On the bentshaft and Freestyle blades
> > > that I do,
> > > >I routinely shape to very close tolerances and thin edges.
> > > >
> > > >The shaped blade faces, the ridge, even the groove, would be easy
> > > for me to
> > > >do with the grinder. But, I guess that after 600 paddles, it had
> > > better be.
> > > >
> > > >In the end, we all choose the tools that work best for us.
> > > >
> > > >Douglas
> > > >
> > > >> Phil, I can't conceive of being able to control a disk sander
> > > that well.
> > > >But
> > > >> I cut the hollow successfully with a belt sander all the time.
> > > Rough the
> > > >> shape either by hand or with the shaper, then use the nose of
> > > the belt
> > > >> sander to grind the final curve. It takes some practice, but it
will
> > > >work.
> > > >> Someday I would like to get better, more accurate control of that
by
> > > >> building a special sanding tool; but for now, my beat-up old Makita
> > > does
> > > >the
> > > >> job.
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: "Philip A Jacobs (jaco0253@jaco0253.email.umn.edu)"
> > > >> <jaco0253@gold.tc.umn.edu>
> > > >> To: <baidarka@lists.intelenet.net>
> > > >> Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 6:48 PM
> > > >> Subject: Re: baidarka FW: Aleut Paddle
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > I haven't tried this but have been following this thread. Some
> > > of the
> > > >> > better wood working catalogs (Lee Valley Tools, Garrett Wade,
> > > etc.) sell
> > > >> > scooping tools ('scorps') used to hollow out chair seats, etc.
> > > on a pull
> > > >> > stroke. Sort of like a ladle with a sharpened edge and a hole
> > > in the
> > > >> > bottom.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Could these grooves or hollows be carved out with a 4 inch disk
> > > >> > sander/grinder, using the edge of the disk on an angle (like
> > > cutting
> > > >coves
> > > >> > on a table saw)?
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Oooh, I hate to recommend this to anybody. It is a special
> > > cutter I
> > > >built
> > > >> > up myself with the help of a machine shop (the cutter alone
> > > was nearly
> > > >> > $500). Tricky, expensive, dangerous as hell. A panel cutter
> > > won't do
> > > >it.
> > > >> > This is more like a 2" high cove cutter with a long straight
> > > side set at
> > > >8
> > > >> > degrees. If you really want to go there, I will send you some
> > > photos
> > > >after
> > > >> > I come back from Alaska. You will need a pretty health shaper
> > > for this,
> > > >> > at least 2 hp. I am using a 220v Grizzly. Ask me again next
year!
> > > >> > -
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> > > >> >
> > > >>
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> > > >>
> > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From Jim Mitchell
> > > on vacation in Juneau Alaska
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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